Showing posts with label asi2600mmPro. Show all posts
Showing posts with label asi2600mmPro. Show all posts

Tuesday, September 9, 2025

The Samyang 135mm f/2 Lens; Setting It Up and How to Use It

[This is Part 1 of 2 about my new Samyang 135mm f/2 lens imaging system]

Assembling the System

My Samyang 135 mm f/2 imaging system comprises the Canon version of the lens,  a ZWO EAFN, the M42 adapter from Thinkable Creations, and finally the Astrodymium rings. 

The rings (made in Canada) were held up by the changing import rules and regulations about tariffs and fees because I had ordered them from the manufacturer in Canada. The seller was scrambling to sort out what it all meant for any delivery issues and added fees, and was good enough to contact me about what was going on and suggest I cancel the order and buy it from Agena Astro.  Which is what I ended up doing.

The Astrodymium rings/cradle went together like clockwork. I managed to take a couple of missteps by not following the directions and paying attention to the animations in the instructions. I don't use ASIAIR and probably never will, so instead I got a second accessory rail instead. I know when one is accustomed to machined aluminum for tube rings and dovetails the 3D-printed plastic parts may seem a little suspect, but when assembled the entire thing is quite rigid. I don't expect to see any flexure at all.

Through no fault of Thinkable Creations the install of their adapter was more difficult than anticipated. Installing it involves first removing a plate on the Samyang that interfaces with a Canon DSLR and then detaching a spacer ring that's held in place by four tiny screws. The plate came off easily, but two of the spacer ring screws were crazy tight and it took some time (plus a little penetrating oil and elbow grease) to get them out. Other than that the install went well. 

One thing about this adapter that prospective buyers should know: the M42 threads are very long. When I screwed it onto my ZWO EFW it came within a mm of the filter carousel. This seemed dangerous; I imagined it snagging on the carousel and possibly damaging the EFW and filters. 

But fortunately it all worked out. The required backfocus when used with filters is 45 mm. With the adapter in place I have 12.5 (camera) + 20 (EFW) + 5.5 (adapter) for a backfocus of 38 mm. My plan was to add a 7.5 M42 spacer ring to bring it up to 45.5, which I should have been close enough to the magic number of 45.0. Unfortunately those long threads wouldn't allow the ring to fully screw onto the adapter, and instead of 7.5 mm it added 9.5 mm. That put backfocus at 47.5, much too long. Luckily, I had a 5 mm spacer ring on hand. When it screwed on as far as possible there was a gap between it and the adapter face of about 2 mm. This effectively made the adapter's back focus 7.5 mm. Plus the spacer ring's threads don't intrude into the EFW anywhere near as far as the adapter. So if you intend to use the adapter, buy a 5 mm spacer ring, too. The diagram below illustrates how the backfocus works.


Backfocus for ASI 2600 minus tilt ring (red),
ZWO EFW (blue), 5mm spacer (green), and M42 adapter (black);
Diagram is not to scale!

The only thing I didn't get (but should have) in the initial round of orders was a short (150 mm) Vixen-style dovetail, but that's on order and will arrive about the time this is posted. The short length allows the camera/EFW to have full rotation and lets me do flats by resting the light atop the lens shroud.

Imaging at a focal length of 135 mm

Undersampling

Imaging with the Samyang 135 mm f/2 lens is going to be different from my usual imaging mainly because of its short focal length. This will cause what's called undersampling, in which pixels scale is smaller than what the seeing scale. When this is the case, a star's light will illuminate a pixel, but probably not the pixels around it. The star is imaged as a square of pixel size. (When pixel scale is much smaller than seeing scale, a star will illuminate many pixels which makes for nice looking stars at the cost of resolving detail.) 

How do we know undersampling will occur before even taking an image? All we need to do is compare our imaging setup's pixel scale to a value of seeing expected for an imaging session. Suppose we take average seeing as 2.0 arcseconds per pixel  ("/px).

The formula for a setup's image scale is base on the camera's pixel size and the focal length of the imaging telescope or lens: 

Pixel scale (in "/px) = 206 x camera pixel size (in microns) / focal length of lens (in mm)

If you look closely at my recent IFN image, you can see it's on the edge of being undersampled: many of the smaller stars look blocky. According to the above formula, my setup for that had an image scale of 

Pixel scale = 206 x 3.76 microns / 387 mm = 2.0"/px

This confirms the idea that it's mildly undersampled.

Now let's repeat the calculation for the Samyang. We have

Pixel scale = 206 x 3.76 microns / 135 mm =  5.74"/px

This is much larger than 2"/px, so it's safe to assume stars will be undersampled, probably badly.

Drizzling

The way to compensate for undersampling is to drizzle during processing. Drizzling can make those blocky stars rounder and fuzzier, at cost of extra processing time and worse, an amplification of noise. The noise can be reduced by acquiring a large number of light frames and by using a utility like NoiseXTerminator. Drizzling raises the bar on how many light frames to collect and may require frequent dithering. 

If you read forums there seem to be two common answers for how many frames you need -- at least 100 or at least 40. The former comes from those who want the very best images, while the latter is for people like me who are happy with satisfactory results. I'll probably go with 40 for the color frames, but closer to 100 for luminance. There's also disagreement about how often to dither -- once every few frames or with every frame. I'll probably choose to dither after each luminance frame and after each third frame for color channels, if I can reduce the time it takes to dither to something like 20 seconds or so. This might be unrealistic, only testing will tell.

 Dithering

The distance to dither on the imaging camera is generally accepted to be 10 px or so. NINA lets you set this by specifying how many pixels to move on the guide camera. To determine the value to use requires that pixel scale formula again, applied to the imaging system and again to the guiding system:

Imaging Scale = 5.74 "/px (from previously)

Guiding Scale = 206 x 3.75 microns / 130 mm = 5.94 "/px

This means moving one pixel on the guider corresponds to moving 5.94", and moves the imaging camera (5.94 / 5.74) px, or 1.04 px. In other words, the motions of the imaging camera essentially are the same as those of the guider. If I want 10 px dithering on the images, I should use 10 px for the NINA "PHD2 Dither Pixels" setting. The number to use is open to guesswork. Maybe 5 is fine? I'll have to try different values.

Other NINA dither settings are related to the mount. "Settle Pixel Tolerance" is basically how close PHD2 has to be to the guide star before it allows the mount to start settling. You can also set the minimum and maximum times for settling. The defaults for these are 10 and 40 s, respectively. My plan is to experiment with the minimum time and pixel tolerance values to see what works fastest with my mount. 

Some people dither only in RA, but the general advice is to use random dithering.

Exposure time

This is really a guessing game with many trade-offs. For fun I'll use the Sharpcap Sky background calculator for imaging with the Samyang at the Iowa Star party. Sky brightness there is 21.60 magnitude per square arcsecond, and the resulting sky electron rate is 6.49e-/px/s. Read noise is a negligible 1.4e- at gain 100, so to get the sky up to about 1/6 of full well would take 333 s (5.5 minutes). Pretty sure most of the stars in the field of view would be blown out by that. How about simply making sure that the sky signal swamps the read noise? Let's say by a factor of 100? That would only require an exposure of about 21 s. So now I have the exposure time bracketed: 20 to 2000 s!

It's worth noting that some people will shot light frames with only 20 s exposure.

I've been using 90 s exposures and I really like the star color I got in the IFN image so I think I'll stay with that. A test image around the next new moon would be really useful.  

Next Post: Testing

Sunday, November 7, 2021

Canon lens and the ASI 2600MM

In the previous post I suggested a configuration to use in mating DSLR lenses to the ASI 2600MM camera + ZWO 7x36mm EFW. A first test of this has been done, with good results. Here's a simple stack/stretch of some Heart Nebula H alpha data taken using an old Olympus lens with a Canon adapter, mated to the ASI with a thin Canon to M42 adapter + thin spacer rings for 1.4mm


Things to be aware of are 

  • The wind was gusting to 30mph the entire time data were being collected.
  • North is to the right; you can see a substantial drift in RA probably because this is a temporary rig and utterly out of RA balance (PHD was squawking a lot) 
  • Focus was far from perfect
  • This was 2x2 in-camera binned and roughly calibrated using dark frames from 10C cooler calibration, no flats, no bias. 
  • Stretch was just the PixInsight STF

Evidence of the drift is seen along the top (west) edge of the image where there is a thin band of partial coverage. As a result of the probable bouncing due to PHD's problems we expect stars to elongate in RA during the ten-minute exposures, and that's just what we see in this composite image of the center and four corners:


 The center shows the poor focus and evidence of the RA drift. (RA drift is in the vertical.) 

Stars at the corners compare well with the center stars. While they show the same soft focus and RA elongation, there's no evidence of aberrations resulting from improper spacing between lens and sensor. 

Sharper focus might well show defects, but this is not bad for a windy night, no balance, and a $40 Olympus 200mm f/4 lens (stopped down to f/5.4).

And one last little observation about the pricing of astro gear. The Canon lens adapter for my SBIG ST-8300 cost me $300. Things were far less expensive for the ASI. The Canon/M42 adapter plus the thin spacing rings came to $75. Over half of that was for the general purpose rings that will see duty in additional ways.


Sunday, October 10, 2021

ASI 2600MM; FSQ-106EDX4 imaging trains

ASI 2600 Glitch:

First, bad news then the good: My new ASI2600MM Pro was delivered last month. As it sometimes happens with new things, not all is well. The camera's temperature sensor was not reporting. From reading forum posts, it appears that ZWO, like every other maker of advanced astronomy gear, has occasional blips in their quality control. A non-functional temperature sensor is not common, but it does happen.

I got in touch with OPT (the vendor) and they had ZWO contact me with the fix. The fix is so simple I wondered if it could possibly work: Shoot some compressed air around the sensor's flat cable, pop open the little clip holding it in place, shoot some more air in, jostle but do not disconnect the cable (that part was left very vague in the instructions), close the clip, and button the camera back up.

It worked!

FSQ-106EDX4 Imaging Optical Trains

CAVEAT: I have not taken delivery of the FSQ so none of the following has been verified in the field. A vendor post on CloudyNights suggests delivery may have to wait until February!

Now on to the main topic: how to get ready for imaging with the FSQ-106EDX4.

The imaging cameras will be an ASI2600MM Pro and a modded Canon T2i. I'll be using the FSQ in two modes: native f/5 and f/3.65 using the CR 0.73X focal reducer, and I would like to use the ASI with my existing EOS lenses. (I resisted the temptation to buy the 0.6X reducer, opting instead to save a thousand dollars and make the optical train a little more user friendly.)

I'll be imagining with two devices: a Ha-modded OSC Canon T2i and the ZWO 7x36mm EFW (M42 connections, optical thickness 20mm) with ASI2600MM (backfocus of 12.5mm after removing the tilt plate).  The following configurations are based on what Takahashi has published about their adapters (see link below) and forum comments on CloudyNights.com.


FSQ106 Native Mode + ASI2600:

The FSQ focuser has a travel range of only about 30mm, so back focus should put the sensor near the center of this if possible. Sources suggest this is at a distance of 163mm (178mm minus half the travel range) beyond the end of the focuser. Already in the optical train are the 645 RD adapter (TKA36581, 10mm backfocus), CAA-250 (TKP86200, 38.5mm), Aux Ring S (TKA38205, 27.5mm), and Coupling TW (TKP36003, 34.2mm); their total is 110.2mm. This has stepped us down from M98 to M54 thread and we still need about 53mm. To get us down to M42, we use Blue Fireball's adapter with thickness 6.9mm. Now we add the EFW (20mm) and 2600's backfocus (12.5mm without the tilt plate) and we're at 110.2 + 6.9 + 20 + 12.5 = 149.6. We add a simple 12mm M42 spacer and get 161.2. You could use a 5, 10, or 15mm spacer, or even a thicker M54/M42 adapter. "Close" is good enough.

REVISED 8/11/2022 The diagram above is not longer correct. FSQ106 + CR 0.73X Focal Reducer + ASI 2600

Takahashi says the optimal distance from FR back to sensor is 72.2mm. The camera backfocus and filter add to 32.5mm, leaving 39.7mm for adapters that will take us down from M56 to M42. The M56 adapter in the diagram proved to be problematic so instead I'm using these adapters: Blue Fireball M56(f) -M48(m), M48(f)-M42(m), and M42(f)-M42(m), with respective lengths of 12.1, 16.5, and 10mm. This gives a total of 38.5mm, about 1.2mm short. I used the Hocus Focus plugin for NINA to see if this was close enough. The plugin suggested I need to add 3 focuser steps, which translates to a mere 0.011mm. In other words, the plugin agrees with the new setup. I will add another 1.2mm to the adapters and run the plugin again to see what it says.

It's not clear to what extent vignetting will be an issue, but my hope is that it will be largely correctable using flats.

Canon EOS lens + ASI2600

(Note: This has been tested and shown to work. See later post.) The backfocus target here (per the ZWO documentation) is to put 43.8mm between the lens and sensor (26.3 for their adapter and 17.5 for the camera with tilt plate attached). I want the EFW in this train, though, so I remove the tilt plate and use a thin Canon lens to M42 adapter (10mm). This puts it at 10 + 20 + 12.5 = 42.5. Thin spacer rings are used to bring this up to the required value.

Incidentally, this configuration is the reason the tilt plate is missing in all the other configurations. 

Correction: Cam sides of scope and FR are M56 female

 

FSQ-106 Native mode + Canon T2i

The FSQ-106 System Chart tells us we need only spacers provided with the telescope and the Wide T-mount for EOS.

FSQ-106 + CR 0.73X Focal Reducer + Canon T2i

The FSQ-106 System Chart tells us we need only spacers provided with the telescope, TKA35201 and the Wide T-mount for EOS.

LIST of PARTS NOT INCLUDED with FSQ-106EDX4

This lists the adapters and spacers needed to supplement the parts provided with the FSQ-106. They are listed along with their: backfocus, manufacturer, vendor/part #, and price. Very possibly you can find alternative products and vendors, but I'm very happy with Agena and OPT.

    M54 (f) to M42 (m), 6.9mm, Blue Fireball, AgenaAstro/PAAR-BF-T-16, $25     

    M56(f) to M48(m), 12.1mm, Blue Fireball, AgenaAstro/ PAAR-BF-M-24, $43    

    12mm M42 spacer, 12mm, Celestron, OPT/CE-93618, $40 
 
    10mm M42 spacer, 10mm, source unknown        

    EOS to M42 (m) adapter, 10mm, QHY, AgenaAstro/PAAR-QH-20072, $35

    TKA35201, NA, Takahashi, OPT/TK-TKA35201, $82

    Wide T-mount for EOS, NA, Takahashi, OPT/TK-TMW0004, $167

    Thin M42 spacer rings, 0.1 to 1.0mm, Blue Fireball, AgenaAstro/PAAR-BF-S-SET7, $40

HELPFUL LINKS

https://agenaastro.com/

https://optcorp.com/ 

https://www.takahashiamerica.com/

https://astronomyplus.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Takahashi-Adapter-Specifications.pdf